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This Site
uses Frames. If the Navigation and starting Page with Header and Links does
not appear click Question: - What is the rapture? Answer: - An event not foretold by the prophets of the Old Testament.
Revealed to the Apostle Paul by the risen Lord as the completion of the Body
of Christ before the Day of Judgment in 1 Thessalonians 4:13- 18. Not
judgment day, that is detailed in Revelation 20:11. The Day of Judgment
foretold by the prophets and detailed in the Book of Revelation is regards
this world, the Great Tribulation of Matthew 24, God’s anger over a Christ
rejecting world and the mistreatment of his covenant people the Nation of
Israel. Question: - What is the Gospel and what is the Gospel for us now? Answer: - The word gospel means good tidings, glad tidings, or simply Good
News. The confusion has come because of tradition that there is only one
Gospel or one good news. Here is a simple example
that there are distinct differences. In Lk.4:16 the Lord Jesus, reading from
the Prophet Isaiah “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath
anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the
broken-hearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of
sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised.” That this is a detailed description of the
Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven should be obvious, for the preaching of the
cross and the Gospel of the Grace of God did not come into effect until after
Israel’s refusal to accept their Messiah. The gospel for us at this present
time is the Gospel of the Grace of God revealed to the Apostle Paul. The blessings and promises of
that gospel you will only find in Paul’s Epistles and nowhere else. For and Against, but the truth cannot be ignored. Paul’s Gospel on facebook. Question: - Is there life on Mars? Answer: - There is no life on Mars. In the beginning God created life on earth,
and “by one man Sin entered into the world, and
death by sin.” (Romans 5:12) There is no sin on Mars and therefore there is
no extinct life either. No biological material and no microbiological
material. Water or material in itself do not create or evolve into life that
can replicate ever. That is a
scientific fact. Rocks do not replicate themselves, and water does not
multiply itself no matter how long you wait. That is true science. 1
Sept.2008 Let God be true and every man a liar - Romans 3:4. This Site
uses Frames. If the Navigation and starting Page with Header and Links does
not appear click Paul’s Gospel on facebook For and against, but the truth cannot be ignored. Comments for correction are
made by Frank in purple. Adam wrote on September 13, 2008 at 6:53pm I pray that everyone in this
Fan Club realizes and understands the gospel that Paul preached. The fact
that it was different than what Peter, James and John were preaching. Eric wrote on September 29, 2008 at 4:53pm how so? Jacob wrote on October 6, 2008 at 6:29pm Paul mainly taught on the
guidelines for being a proper Christian. He taught about the differences
between a pre-born person, and a re-born person, such as what to refrain
from, and what to start doing. Chris wrote on November 16, 2008 at 9:26pm I think what Adam is getting
at is that the ascended Christ revealed a UNIQUE message directly to Paul, that sinners could be saved by grace entirely on the
merits of their faith in Christ's death, burial, and resurrection for their
100% justification. Billy wrote on November 17, 2008 at 6:34pm also vist
www.understandingyourbible.com Stuart wrote on November 26, 2008 at 11:44pm Chris Griggs, no. Peter and
John taught the same gospel. I'm going to have to disagree with you. I will
show you why I think so. My comment for correction: 1 Peter 1:9 speaks of the salvation “the prophets
had spoken of,” Paul teaches of a Salvation which the Prophets did not know
anything about because God had kept it secret until He revealed it to Paul
(Romans 16:25). Peter is writing by
inspiration and is addressing his brethren according to his nationality in
the diaspora which he clearly states in verse one of 1Peter. The Body of
Christ of this dispensation has no diaspora. Peter tells them that they are
going to be a nation of priests according to Old Testament Promise. Exodus 19:6 “And ye shall
be unto me a kingdom of priests” Isa
61:6 “But ye shall be named the
Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall
eat the riches of the Gentiles.” In
Peter’s epistle the key is, as in the Book of Isaiah, is found in the first
verse of the book, it is “concerning Judah and Jerusalem.” Notice the keys or the
address in the first or second verse of First and Second Corinthians it is
“unto the church of God in Corinth.” Verse two of Galatians “unto the
churches in Galatia.” Ephesians 1:1 “to the saints which are at Ephesus, and
to the faithful in Christ Jesus:” Philippians 1:1 “to all the saints
in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi.”
Colossians 1:1 “To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which
are at Colossae.” 1st and 2nd Thessalonians 1:1 “unto
the church of the Thessalonians.” 1 Peter 1:9-10 goes on to
tell you that the prophets revealed “the suffering of Christ and the Glory
that should follow.” The interval between the suffering of Christ and the
Glory that should follow is this present dispensation of grace. Again you quote 1 Peter 3:10
which clearly says “that grace to be given to you when Jesus Christ
is revealed.” The believer in this age is not waiting for grace
to be given to him but has already received the grace of God and is blessed
with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places. When Jesus
Christ is revealed the body of Christ has already departed this earth, for the Revelation of Christ is not the
rapture of 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17. We must not
confuse the dispensation of Grace with grace in any dispensation. The word
grace appears 24 times in the book of Romans, 12 times in the Epistle to the
Ephesians, not once in the book of Matthew, only twice in the book of
Revelation for the Dispensation of Grace is past. Again the first verse in the
Epistle of James tells you that he is writing to the twelve tribes. May I
remind you that The Body of Christ does not consist of twelve tribes! In James 2:2 the word assembly is
mistranslated, the word is Synagogue and the elders of James 5:14 are equally
of the Synagogue. He is not addressing Christians in the Body of Christ and
therefore the confusion of verse 15 and 16, and the entire epistle, which
will be quite normal in the Kingdom age to come, but has little relevance for
this dispensation. Andrea wrote on December 14, 2008 at 1:58pm Peter also says this: Shawn wrote on December 14, 2008 at 11:33pm Let's bring some more
Scripture in to prove the point that Peter and Paul did NOT preach the same Gospel.
Everything that Peter and the Ten Apostles of ISRAEL preached, they learned
from Jesus while Jesus was in His flesh, in His earthly ministry (Matthew
10:5-7). However, upon Saul of Tarsus's conversion on the Road to Damascus,
Jesus has ALREADY ascended to Heaven years before. Jesus was no longer on
Earth in His flesh at the time of Paul's Damascus Road experience. Shawn wrote on January 15, 2009 at 8:31pm Stuart, I would like you to
read two verses. Let the Scriptures speak, and it will all make sense. Andrea wrote on January 18, 2009 at 7:07am Paul is the only one that
received the gospel of the grace of God. Peter was with Jesus three years. At
Pentecost, was Peter preaching Christ died for your sins, was buried and
arose again the third day? No he preached you killed the Messiah. He was
preaching repentance and baptism. He preached to Israel to repent (change
their mind) because before Christ' crucifixion, they said we will not have
this man rule over us. They needed to change their mind about who He was not what He had done on the cross. They also
needed to be baptized. And that was NOT to be an outward sign of salvation
like most denominations falsely teach. It was to identify them as believers
in WHO HE WAS. If you really read the four gospels carefully, Jesus is not
teaching about the cross, He was coming to His people, Israel to show them
WHO HE WAS, that he was their Messiah that was to bring in the kingdom. This
is the gospel that was preached by Jesus and the eleven. It had nothing to do
with grace. They had no idea of Jesus dying and rising again. It was hid from
them by Jesus himself. There are two completely different programs going on
in scripture. In 1 John he says we don't need a teacher, and Paul says to
study. In Peter's writing it says baptism does save and Paul says Christ sent
me not to baptize and he says there is only ONE baptism. Peter says repent
and be converted that your sins MAY BE blotted out WHEN the Lord
comes. You can't say they are the same, if you do you have to add to God's
word or explain it away. There is a difference. It is all true but not true
for all people at all times. If you live in the US, do you follow the laws of
Russia? It's not where you live today so you live and follow the laws of the
US. You can live like a Russian but it's not for you. You can follow Israel's
program but that's not who you are. April wrote on January 20, 2009 at 5:47am Paul was called by God just
as WE ALL ARE. I see too many idolize Paul and follow him when we should be
following Jesus! Only Jesus' words are life. The way, the truth, and the
life. No other name is above his. Nope not even Paul's. My comment for correction: Paul said in Romans 11:13
“For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I
magnify mine office:”
He magnified his commission not himself, and notice, he is the
Apostle to the Gentiles. Andrea wrote on January 21, 2009 at 4:55pm Jesus wrote the whole Bible.
All of the Bible are His words. Moses was given the
law but nobody says if you follow the law you idolize Moses. Paul was given
the gospel of the grace of God from the risen Lord himself. Paul the man is
not what we follow today. We follow him as a pattern as he follows Christ. We
follow Jesus by following Paul and what he was given by Jesus Christ. Paul is
not our savior. Paul didn't die for us but he was the only one given the grace
message by our Savior. Shawn replied to April's post on January 21, 2009 at
6:38pm April, you seemed to have
misunderstood what we're saying about Paul's ministry. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY
RIGHT: PAUL IS NOT TO BE EXALTED ABOVE JESUS CHRIST! We are not exalting
Paul--we are exalting the grace age information that Christ revealed to Paul,
so Paul could give it to us. I do not worship Paul, but Paul is our apostle
of the Age of Grace (Ephesians 3:1-9). Stuart wrote on January 26, 2009 at 7:06am True, it is the same
Christ. True, Christ is the
object of that faith. To the believer of the
Kingdom Gospel Christ is the King to sit on David’s throne. To the
believer of the Grace Gospel Christ is the Head of the Body. The Kingdom Saint is
saved to be a citizen of that earthly kingdom promised to Israel. Since
Israel’s Fall the Gospel of the Grace of God is
preached and believers are saved to a heavenly citizenship to provoke
Israel to be jealous. Romans
11:11. Philippians 3:20,21. This is not only scripturally correct but also
dispensational correct Death of Jesus - 2:23, 2:36, 3:13, 3:15, 4:10 Peter was speaking to Jews and
asking them to repent because they were party to the death of their King
and told them that if they would repent (Nationally) they would have
their crime forgiven and the King would return. Acts
3:20. The word gospel means just good news, and when the
word gospel is used it certainly is not always referring to the same good
news you read about. When God preached the Gospel to Abraham he was not
telling him about the good news of the “preaching of the cross” for lost
sinners. Galatians 3:8
“And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the
heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee
shall all nations be blessed.” Abraham was told that all nations would be blessed
through him, That was the good news (gospel) but
the Lord did not tell him how. My comment for
correction: How can Jesus
be the secret? John 3:16, 36 and John 5:24 were true before Calvary. The
coming of the Messiah is the subject of prophecy and not mystery. In Luke
24:44 “And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake
unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which
were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms,
concerning me. Then opened he
their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto
them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved
Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that
repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all
nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Peter and Paul
are not distanced. They had different marching orders and it is the
traditional view which has blurred the distinctions. Paul does say that it
was revealed to him only and he did not communicate it to the Twelve until
some 15 years after his conversion, and you can read of it in Galatians
2:2-9. Andrea wrote on January 26, 2009 at 4:00pm We follow Paul as he follows
Christ. How is Peter's message of repent and be baptized with Paul's message
of believe the gospel the same? You can't possibly make those two statements
say the same thing. Peter is not telling Israel in Acts 2:38 that Jesus died
for their sins. He says you killed
him. Where does Peter say we are
saved by grace through faith? When Jesus came in His earthly ministry He NEVER
told Israel they were not under the law anymore. Even in Acts 10 Peter was
STILL under the law. He didn't embrace Cornelius and tell Him that Jesus died
for his sins. He said it was unlawful to go into a gentile. If it's all the same gospel why is Peter STILL
not going to gentiles. He knew that
Jesus told them go NOT into the way of the gentiles. He has NOT been told any
different. You can't honestly say Peter is preaching grace, if he is
preaching the same thing, why would he not want to see ALL men saved, not
just Israel. Presently God is calling out (ecclesia – church)
individual people out of the
nations, whereas when the “great Commission” will be fulfilled in the
future, when the Twelve Apostles will be teaching the nations, entire nations
will be saved through Israel as you read in Rev. 21:24 And the nations of them which
are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do
bring their glory and honour into it. The Lord’s words will come true;
the twelve will judge the twelve tribes of Israel and also be responsible
to run the curriculum for the education systems for the rest of the
nations in the world. Satan will be locked up by then and all his
deceptions are going to be exposed. The name of our blessed Lord will no
longer be the byword of the drunkard or the swear-word of the profane.
Israel will rejoice in God’s blessing here on earth. Zech. 8:23 Thus
saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall
come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the
nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying,
We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you. The Apostles will have power to raise
the dead. Mt 10:8
Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received,
freely give. All that goes with the preaching, the Gospel of the Kingdom,
for that is certainly not happening now under the gospel of the Grace of
God. “My Grace is sufficient for thee” was the Lord’s answer to Paul. I think you're playing word
games here, because Peter never said the words "grace through
faith" in Acts. Neither does Paul. Peter does mention both of these
things in his first epistle however, multiple times. I've got them here for
you, in the context specifically of Jesus being given. My comment for
correction: There is no
play on words. Our problem is superficial reading and the influence of
tradition. Peter is not writing to the Body of Christ of this dispensation as
in 1Peter 1:11 he sets the order by saying: “Searching what, or what manner
of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified
beforehand the sufferings of
Christ, -------and the glory that should follow.” He skips this age altogether, anticipating the
glory of the Kingdom here on earth, and tells them to be, 2Pe 3:12 “Looking for
and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on
fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?” Paul
on the other hand is telling the believers of this age to be, Titus 2:13 “Looking for
that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;” There is difference of time and
essence. There is no
flaw in theology for in
“Genesis 6:8 Noah found
grace in the eyes of the LORD,” but grace in a dispensation does not make it
the dispensation of Grace. A common error is the assumption that Salvation
automatically means the same result every time the word is used. Presently
God is saving people out of all nations by grace through faith only, to a
heavenly position in Christ “to provoke them (Israel) to jealousy (Romans
11:11). Jews in time past were saved to become subjects of the Kingdom here
on earth, and as the Apostles were promised in Matthew 19:28 “Verily I say
unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of
man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve
thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” In the future, when the Body
of Christ is removed from this earth, as stated in Thessalonians 4:16, the
Gospel of the Kingdom will again be preached with the result of many being
beheaded as you read in Revelation 20:4
“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given
unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for
the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark
upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with
Christ a thousand years.” It is when the Antichrist is ruling this earth, and
guess what religion that might be, that is even now
so keen to cut people’s heads off? And 1John is exactly referring to that age
of the Antichrist 2:22 “Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the
Christ? He is Antichrist, that denies the Father and
the Son.” Here again, what violent religion denies the Father and the Son? The Lord Jesus
gave the Twelve specific commandments regards the Gospel of the Kingdom which
are ignored by the masses of Christians and none Christians alike. Make
disciples of Nations, not individuals, as in Revelation 21:24 “And the nations of them which are
saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring
their glory and honour into it.” Likewise the
Gospel of the Grace of God is ignored and rejected by so called Christians
and Unbelievers. “The Wall
broken down” did not happen until Israel’s Fall, when Israel was placed on
the same level as the Gentiles, who, according to Ephesians 2:12 were “aliens
from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise,
having no hope, and without God in the world:” When God concluded them all
under sin Galatians 3:22. The statements of Romans 3:19 – 30 were not
available to the Twelve in Acts chapter two or ten. To be “In
Christ” does not automatically mean to be in “The Body of Christ” for the
person who is in Christ is no longer in Adam. That is why Paul could say in Romans 16:7 “Salute Andronicus and Junia,
my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who
also were in Christ before
me.” Also the “New
Man” is Not The New Kingdom. Dispensationalism is a Biblical Fact else there be
no need to “Study thyself” and “rightly divide the word of truth.” Notice,
study thyself, and not let others study for you, which has resulted that Christian
Seminaries and teachers influence the students by regurgitating the same
errors from generation to generation. 1 Timothy 1:4 is not correctly translated. The words
“godly edifying” is clearly “Economy” so That Timothy was to “charge some
that they teach no other doctrine, (that is what Paul taught) Neither give
heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than
God’s Dispensation which is in faith: so do.”Again in Ephesians 3:1-3 ¶ “For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus
Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have
heard of the dispensation
of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known
unto me the mystery;” Stuart wrote on January 26, 2009 at 7:21pm Hey, it's me again! Tradition instigated the change of wording. Acts
chapter 15 is 15 years after Pentecost and the Apostles are still in
Jerusalem (verse 2) and verse 5 is evidence that they did not know the
Gospel of the Grace of God. You mean to say with the Apostles in town for
15 years the Pharisees that believed still did not know the difference? Tradition wants us
believe the so called “great commission” was in operation from Acts chapter
two onwards. But that is not what the record of the book of Acts
teaches. Acts 8:1 tell us there
was a great persecution of Jewish believers who were scattered throughout
the region which, we are told in 11:19 “preaching the word to none but
unto the Jews only”. Why would that be if they “continued in
the Apostles Doctrine”? Well, that was the Apostles doctrine. Again it
tells us the disciples were scattered “except the Apostles.” The Apostles
did not move from Jerusalem because Jerusalem had to be converted first
for the kingdom program to continue. The Apostles knew it and understood
it; there is plenty of evidence in the book of Acts alone to prove it,
yet here we are nearly 2000 years later and still don’t know what really
happened because we are so engrained with tradition that we are not even
willing to look at the evidence. In Acts 12 Peter is in Jerusalem in
prison instead of sitting with the other eleven apostles on twelve
thrones judging the 12 Tribes of Israel, and James the first of the Apostles,
the brother of John, has already been murdered by Herod. Peter was facing
the same and there was no public uproar to prevent the murder of someone
who did beneficial miracles among them. In fact we are told in verse two
that “it pleased the Jews.” Now
if all of Jerusalem had been saved by now, Herod would be off the throne,
and that murder would never have happened. ------------------+ Andrea wrote on January 26, 2009 at 7:43pm What is the point? Is everything after Matthew 28 not
Scripture? 1Cor 14:37 If any man think himself to be a
prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto
you are the commandments of the Lord. Ephesians was written AD 60 some 30 years after
Pentecost. The Lord Jesus made salvation available to Gentiles after Israel’s
rejection of the Kingdom, after rejecting the testimony of the Holy
Ghost, on a never before revealed basis, and to a never before revealed
position for Jews and Gentiles to be in one body Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and
made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: Stuart wrote on January 27, 2009 at 12:14am Andrea, I think you're missing
my point. I said not to bother quoting anything the Lord said AFTER Matthew
28, where He commands His apostles (and us) to make disciples of all nations.
Jesus did send Peter into the world during the great commission. My comment for
correction: Matthew 28:16
says: “Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain
where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some
doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven
and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore,
and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the
Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all
things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the
end of the world. Amen. A specific command given to the eleven has been
wrenched from them by the influence of tradition. Read the text carefully,
“Go ye” is addressed to the Eleven. Eric replied to Stuart's post on February 25, 2009 at
4:23pm I read through all this, and
it is very plain: Stuart replied to Eric's post on February 26, 2009 at
4:07am 1 Corinthians 15:11 really
hammers home that point, too. Eric replied to Stuart's post on February 26, 2009 at
10:30am Acts 20:24 But
none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself,
so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the
gospel of the grace of God. 1Timothy 1:11 According to the glorious gospel
of the blessed God, which was
committed to my trust. Andrea wrote on March 14, 2009 at 2:30pm Peter said repent and be baptized for remission
of sin. Paul said believing in the death, burial and resurrection saves you.
I don't see the same thing here. Peter says baptism saves and Paul said there
is only one baptism. Jesus taught that the ten commandments gave you eternal
life. Are you doing that today? Can you name all of them? Israel stumbled and
fell. And now through their fall, we gentiles are now able to be saved today
apart from Israel. We, the body of Christ are a separate and totally
different body of believers saved by faith in the finished work of the cross
Jew or gentile. We are not an offshoot of Judaism. We are a new creation! James wrote on March 31, 2009 at 5:10am Healing people was going to be the norms under the
preaching of the Kingdom gospel see Matthew 10:1 and Mark 16:16-18 He
that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not
shall be damned. 17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name
shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly
thing, it shall not hurt them; they
shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Is that happening today under the preaching of the
Gospel of the Grace of God? My comment for correction: That there is only one
gospel is absolutely false. The word Gospel means Good News or Good Tidings
and to say that there is only one Good News is absurd. The gospel of God means
simply Good News from God. The gospel of Jesus Christ
means simply Good News about Jesus Christ. The gospel of the Kingdom
used four times means simply Good News about the Kingdom to be established
here on earth. The gospel of peace means
exactly that, the Good News of Peace. The gospel of the grace of
God was not revealed until after Israel’s Fall. Therefore we have that verse
in Romans 16:25 “Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the
preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which
was kept secret since the world
began,” which is Good News the Twelve
were not able to preach until the Apostle Paul communicated it to them in
Acts 21 recorded for us in Galatians 2:1 fourteen years after his conversion
“And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach
among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation,” THAT
GOSPEL is the MY GOSPEL, the Good News “that Christ died for our sins
according to the scripture; And that he was buried, and that he rose again
the third day according to the scriptures:” The gospel of the grace of God is
not the gospel of the kingdom. Paul was going to Jerusalem in Acts 20:24 and
said this: “that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord
Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.” What
need was there for him to go to Jerusalem if the Twelve were preaching this
for the last 14 years? Paul has told
us in 1 Timothy 1:11
“ the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.” Read
Ephesians 3:1-8. Notice how many times he uses ME and I
and that he only received the revelation of the dispensation of grace, for it
had not been revealed to anyone before.
Garrett wrote on April 16, 2009 at 5:47pm If you say that Peter and
Paul preach different gospels, then you must acknowledge that Paul then
curses Peter. He specifically says that any different gospel from the true
gospel, even if it comes from angels, is wrong. Andrea wrote on May 1, 2009 at 9:01am Peter is not cursed. He
taught what he was supposed to. He was to preach to Israel to repent of what
they had done and to be baptized as a nation. The tribulation would come and
they would have their kingdom that was preached by the prophets since the
world began. Peter preached what was written in the book of Joel. It was made
known and it was talking about the tribulation. Peter taught that even though
you killed Him, He is still going to give you another chance to receive the
kingdom. But it did not happen. They stoned Stephen and that was the final
rejection. Then Jesus saves Paul and gives him information that was KEPT
SECRET since the world began. That He would save people not on the basis of
who they were (circumcision, un-circumcision) but by faith in the cross. This
was ONLY made known to Paul Garrett wrote on May 1, 2009 at 3:30pm Jesus from the time he
started his ministry taught saved by faith, to everyone. One of his first
converts was a Samaritan Woman (lowest of the low to Jews in that culture),
and the Centurion (a Gentile) amazed Jesus with his faith. Even the Old
Testament saints were saved by faith. Abraham's faith was credited to him as
righteousness, and God said he would make of his seed many nations (not just
Jews, but Gentiles, for Jesus would come from Abraham's seed and bring
Gentiles into Abraham's line). Man is a wretched creature and never once did
the law justify anyone. Under the old covenant the law was a symbol for the
mystery of Jesus Christ, but simply following it blindly wasn't the point, it
was having faith in the one true God. The Pharisees followed the law, but in
their hearts they had no true faith, so hypocrites like them were doomed even
before Jesus came. Jesus strove to explain to people that he wasn't
interested in external things like legalism and race, but on instead he was
interested in the heart. Then when he left for his home in heaven he said, go
forth and make disciples of ALL NATIONS. Peter knew long before Paul that
Jesus wants everyone in his kingdom and that is what Peter taught. Again I
say that anyone that thinks that Jesus, Peter, and Paul taught different
Gospels is misinterpreting the Bible. I don't want to sound harsh, but this
really threatens the authority of scripture and weakens the Gospel. Please at
least meditate some more on the Gospel and pray, before hardening this heresy
in your heart. My comment for correction: The so called Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke
are summarized in John 1:11 “He came to His Own (Israel) and His Own received
Him Not.” John 3:16 and 3:36 were true before Calvary. The 12 Apostles did
not and could not do “the preaching of the cross” before Calvary neither did
they after the resurrection. Acts 10:36 “The word which God sent
unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ:”
And Peter goes on to say in verse 37 “That word, I say, ye
know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began
from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;” Andrea wrote on May 2, 2009 at 4:55pm Jesus in His earthly ministry
did not preach to the gentiles. He was a minister of the circumcision. He
told his disciples to go not into the way of the gentiles. You can't get your
doctrine for today from the four gospels. He addressed Israel under the law.
We are today not under the law nor were we gentiles ever under the mosaic
law. When that gentile woman
came to Jesus to heal her daughter, Jesus ignored her. He didn't heal her
until she blessed Israel. She knew her place. Israel's kingdom WAS at hand
but they had to recognize who Jesus was as a nation. We today are not
recognized as a nation. We are a part of the body of Christ. We will be
ruling in the heavens and Peter and the others will be on the earth, sitting
on thrones. We are going to be joint heirs not subjects to a King. The
disciples were told to go to make disciples of ALL NATIONS. Did they do it?
NO, they never left Jerusalem! And John 3:16 is what Peter was preaching.
They were to recognize WHO Jesus was (believeth in Him). Not believe that He
died for your sins. That is the gospel for today. Lots of people believe in
Jesus and are lost. Peter is preaching to Israel to recognize that their King
is there ready for them to accept the kingdom but they didn't! Garrett wrote on May 3, 2009 at 6:20pm I really don't know how else
to explain it. Maybe we are arguing the same thing with different
terminology. I will try to clarify. Jesus came to the earth to save all men.
The Gospel message never changed, he came not to nullify the law, but to
fulfill it. This was the same for all men whom are subjects to the law
(including Gentiles). Paul himself says that we should not neglect the law
for it is a school master teaching us what is righteous. He went first to the
Jews because they were his people, but the plan was always to save all men.
Isaiah prophesied Christ’s crucifixion hundreds of years before it happened.
In God’s sovereign plan he knew/predestined that Israel would reject their
king. If you are saying that hypothetically if Israel had accepted and
believed in Christ that the Gentiles would not have been grafted onto the
tree, than I really think you don’t understand the Bible as a whole and what
it says. It seems like such a simple concept to me and it grieves my soul
that it has been twisted into something that is so terrible, that God is
limited in his power to how we respond to him. God is sovereign and
immutable, If God’s saving plan and covenants were whimsical plans based on
human response then the world would be a frightening place indeed because we
are so wretched our response would always nullify an agreement with God. This
dispensationalist concept that Jesus’ teachings apply to another epoch and
not to us today is so wrong it is just unbelievable to me that anyone could
believe it. It is hard to express my tone while writing, but I just want to
say I am not writing in righteous indignation, but in a sincere hope that the
truth could be believed, that Jesus loves all men and always did. He wants us
all to be drawn to him and the plan was always that he would be sacrificed to
atone for ALL men’s sins. All his disciples (except Judas perhaps) understood
this, whether they followed it perfectly or not. Paul had to reprove Peter
for discriminating against Gentiles, not because Peter believed differently,
but because he had fallen into sin. Just like us the apostles were sinners
and Peter had tripped and thus Paul was helping him up and reminding him what
Jesus had always said, that all people are precious to him. My comment for correction: The Lord Jesus came to earth
to “save His people (that is Israel) from their sins” Matthew 1:21. He was “the a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God,
to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:” Romans 15:8. The “us and we” in Isaiah’s prophecy
chapter 53 are Jews, for the entire book is, Isa.1:1 “concerning Judah and
Jerusalem.” God’s plan according to prophecy is to save nations through
Israel, for “Salvation is of the Jews” John 4:22. God’s present plan is not
subject to prophecy as He is saving believers through Christ without the
agency of Israel. God’s covenant with Israel made them His agent here on earth;
they were to be the light unto the Gentiles. Because of their refusal to
believe the Gospel of the Kingdom, the rejection of the risen King, who would
never need to be replaced, Israel’s covenant relationship with God is
suspended. The dispensational aspect
of that era is another revelation by the Apostle Paul from Romans chapter
nine to eleven and clearly stated with these words in Romans 11:11 “but rather
through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them
to jealousy.” Prophecy teaches the salvation of Gentiles through the
exaltation of Israel. Please read Zachariah 8:23,
Luke 1:32,33, Jeremiah 23:5-8, and Ezekiel 36:22-28 “And I will sanctify my
great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in
the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you
before their eyes. 24
For I will take you from among the heathen, and
gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 ¶ Then will I sprinkle clean water
upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your
idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you,
and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart
out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you
to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that
I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.” Jeremiah 31:31 “ Behold, the
days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel,
and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made
with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out
of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband
unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with
the house of Israel; After those days, saith the
LORD, I will put my law in their
inward parts, and write it in their
hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the
LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of
them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their
iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. 35 ¶ Thus saith the LORD, which giveth
the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars
for a light by night, which divideth the sea when
the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: 36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall
cease from being a nation before me for ever. Luke wrote on August 24, 2009 at 11:41pm This is exactly what
Paul was telling Timothy in First Timothy 1:4 to do, for the word is “economy”
οικονομιαν
translated
stewardship or godly edifying is not the best translation. Paul was
telling Timothy to teach God’s dispensation. It is the same word as in
the following verses. Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of
times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which
are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God
which is given me to you-ward: Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister,
according to the dispensation
of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; (Gr. oikonomia, "management,"
"economy"). 1. The method or scheme
according to which God carries out his purposes towards men is called a
dispensation. Stuart Luke, let me see if I understand you well. You are
saying that the Old Testament prophecies have nothing to do with the church?
Why on Earth do the apostles point to the fulfilment of scripture in the
church? Please don't pit God's word against itself by claiming that any
non-dispensational view of God's plan make the Bible
contradictory. The verse in 2 Timothy is a very large case of you reading in
an entire theology into two words. Paul never says or teaches the things that
you are putting forward, so to say that "rightly dividing" means
what you think it means ... is dangerous, to say the least. Also, I wouldn't
be relying on those two words when every modern translation renders the words
differently, usually as "handles", which much better fits the
context of Paul's advice to Timothy. To say he was telling Timothy to hold to
a dispensational view of scripture is ... completely absurd. We are dealing
with the word of God here. Old Testament prophecies
are completely silent regards the Church of this dispensation because it
was a mystery which was not revealed to the sons of men in the past. The
Church which is His Body is not the Church of the Wilderness or even the
Church prophesied in Matthew chapter 16. This is just another blunder to
assume that the word church is always referring to the same group of
people. In Acts 19:32 that wild mob in Ephesus is called the church, “the
assembly was confused” we read and the word assembly is ecclesia –
church. Let us wake up, we call it “the Testament” but we read it as if
it was an Agatha Christy. "The Root of Jesse will spring up, one who will arise to rule over the nations; the Gentiles will hope in him", and then notes that this is a fulfilment? He relates a prophecy 700BC and applies it to the Gentiles in the church. The same is true of Hebrews, and 1 Peter. Time and time again. It was always God's plan to save Gentiles and Jews through Jesus. Any other distortion of this cuts at the heart of the grace of God. God knows His elect, and His plans in Jesus were never frustrated. Jews and Gentiles were saved back in the day, and they continue to be saved by now. It has always been by grace, God's choosing. As I said a long time ago in this thread, Peter's case in Acts 15 completely demolishes your standpoint. He says "We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are." Now I'm sure you've read this before, but please take the time to mull it over. "Just as they are". Peter and Gentiles are part of the one group, the church of the living God. Amos 3: "Surely the Sovereign LORD does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets." Amen Amos, Amen. To Stuart Luke. My comment for correction. A non-dispensational view does
make the Bible contradictory. From hundreds of examples here
are just four. Under the dispensation of law
Jews were forbidden to eat amongst many other things pork. Under the
dispensation of Grace the Apostle Paul tells us that nothing is to be refused
1Tim.4:4. Under law forgiveness is
conditional, under grace it is unconditional. Matthew 6:12 and Ephesians
4:32. Under law, and with the
kingdom of heaven at hand, the Lord Jesus said “I say unto you, Take no thought
for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your
body, what ye shall put on” but in
this age of grace 1 Timothy 5:8 we are to make provision for the future. Can
you not see the difference? At Pentecost with the Kingdom
about to be established, the believers had all things in common, but now in
this age, the Apostle to the Gentiles instructs us that if we do not provide
for our family we have denied the faith. Both statements are true but not at
the same time. Under law every male Jew had to present himself three times a
year at the temple in Jerusalem. (Passover, Pentecost and Atonement) In this
dispensation of Grace, God has taken the temple away to show everyone that it
is impossible to keep the law. If there are no dispensations you are to obey
that command. Abraham lived 430 years before the law was given. Did God not
deal with him on a different basis than with Israel under the law? Is there
not a change again when we read in Romans 3:19 “Now we know that whatever things
the law says it says to them that are under the law? “But now” in verse
21 he goes on to say There is no
longer any difference between Jew and
Gentile and reveals the righteousness of God. I maintain that the 12
Apostles did not know anything about the church (out calling) which is His
Body, until they learned it from the Apostle Paul years after Pentecost. The
test is quite simple. Take Paul’s epistles out of the Bible and there is not
one word of a united body of Jews and Gentiles as the Body of Christ. In
Romans chapter 15 the Old Testament reference is in regards to the promises
God had made to the nation of Israel (fathers) as he declared in verse 8 that
Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm
the promises made unto the fathers: 9 And that the Gentiles might glorify
God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee
among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. 10 And again he saith,
Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people. (mercy is not grace and Israel is not
the body of Christ) These promises are yet to be
fulfilled; for the Gentiles, never have in the past neither do they now
rejoice with His People Israel, in fact the entire world at present is
against Israel and the “root of Jesse” is not ruling over the nations. Furthermore, Paul in the same chapter has told us that
he is, in contrast of the minister of the circumcision, the minister to the
Gentiles, that is the un-circumcision. I repeat, take Paul’s Epistles
out of the Bible and you would not know about the dispensation of grace, the
doctrine of reconciliation, the rapture, the secret revealed in 1Corinthians
15 that we shall not all sleep, of Jews and Gentiles in One Body, of One
Baptism by the Spirit into the Body of Christ, of being seated with Christ in
heaven. Peter’s case in Acts 15 is
correctly translated in the KJV. “But
we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved,
even as they.” Peter, the inspired Apostle, filled with the Holy Spirit, did
know the difference that is why he said “shall be saved” in contrast to the
believer in the dispensation of grace who “has been saved.” Peter said,
writing to Jews who will live after the body of Christ is removed from this
earth “Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the
heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with
fervent heat?” Paul writing to believers in the dispensation of grace says
“Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God
and our Saviour Jesus Christ.” 9 July 2010 This Site
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Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven Matthew 10:7. Gospel of the Circumcision Galatians 2:7 Gospel of the Un-circumcision Galatians 2:7. Gospel of Reconciliation Corinthians 5:14-21. Gospel of the Grace of God Acts
20:24. Matthew 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is
at hand. Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in
earth, as it is in heaven. 1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first
man Adam was made a living soul; 1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth,
earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. The Blessed Hope of every Christian Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed
hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus
Christ; 1 Thessalonians 4:13 13 But
I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are
asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also
which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are
alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which
are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the
voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ
shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with
them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be
with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. |